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	<title>Comments on: Can someone explain microformats to me?</title>
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	<link>http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me</link>
	<description>a geek commodity</description>
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		<title>By: Pip</title>
		<link>http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me/comment-page-1#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator>Pip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2005 11:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me#comment-437</guid>
		<description>Blimey. That&#039;s interesting.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In which case, maybe I was just imagining all of Tantek &amp; co&#039;s references to a benefit of choosing XHTML being its extensibility? I don&#039;t think so though. Very interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blimey. That&#8217;s interesting.</p>
<p>In which case, maybe I was just imagining all of Tantek &#038; co&#8217;s references to a benefit of choosing XHTML being its extensibility? I don&#8217;t think so though. Very interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Cori Schlegel</title>
		<link>http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me/comment-page-1#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator>Cori Schlegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2005 10:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me#comment-436</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t made up my mind about microformats yet, and my understanding of them&#039;s also not very deep (yet), but WRT Pip&#039;s comment, I can&#039;t determine if he means that the microformats are extensible or not.  If that&#039;s the message then it&#039;s incorrect, because most of them reference the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://gmpg.org/principles&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;GMPG Principals statement&lt;/a&gt; (see the item on Interoperability) and are copyright Technorati.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t made up my mind about microformats yet, and my understanding of them&#8217;s also not very deep (yet), but WRT Pip&#8217;s comment, I can&#8217;t determine if he means that the microformats are extensible or not.  If that&#8217;s the message then it&#8217;s incorrect, because most of them reference the <a HREF="http://gmpg.org/principles" REL="nofollow">GMPG Principals statement</a> (see the item on Interoperability) and are copyright Technorati.</p>
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		<title>By: Pip</title>
		<link>http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me/comment-page-1#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator>Pip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2005 20:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me#comment-435</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a really interesting way of looking at it, which I&#039;d have noticed was I still subscribed to your blog ;)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But to me it smells like a &quot;boil the oceans&quot; approach. Instead of producing RSS alongside websites, why didn&#039;t we try and make everyone just use the same IDs and classes on their HTML elements? Oh, and surround the bit where you talk about your cat photos with a span or a div with a class=&quot;catphoto&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You see, to my mind, this is actually *more* work than publishing your data in another format entirely. Also, it assumes you&#039;re handwriting your HTML, which, I&#039;m sorry to say, just not that many people *actually* do (comparatively of course).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also I&#039;d actually disagree with the &quot;you should be publishing in valid XHTML&quot;, because I basically agree with Anne van Kesteren, and I think XHTML is a bad idea (NB: that&#039;s a pretty short summary :), but that&#039;s a side-issue.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You write on your blog about why not put the data in the content, but equally, why not put it in the feed? Tantek says &quot;Does it make sense to ask everyone to write envelopes differently just because you’ve figured out a new way to write letters or new things to put in your letters?&quot; well in that case, shoot all versions after Netscape&#039;s 0.90 dead on the spot. This argument doesn&#039;t hold water for me.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It seems to me that microformats are generating pseudo-standards (remember kids, you can extend these any time you like! That&#039;s why things that begin with X are so cool!) in order to artificially generate million-dollar markup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a really interesting way of looking at it, which I&#8217;d have noticed was I still subscribed to your blog <img src='http://philwilson.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But to me it smells like a &#8220;boil the oceans&#8221; approach. Instead of producing RSS alongside websites, why didn&#8217;t we try and make everyone just use the same IDs and classes on their HTML elements? Oh, and surround the bit where you talk about your cat photos with a span or a div with a class=&#8221;catphoto&#8221;.</p>
<p>You see, to my mind, this is actually *more* work than publishing your data in another format entirely. Also, it assumes you&#8217;re handwriting your HTML, which, I&#8217;m sorry to say, just not that many people *actually* do (comparatively of course).</p>
<p>Also I&#8217;d actually disagree with the &#8220;you should be publishing in valid XHTML&#8221;, because I basically agree with Anne van Kesteren, and I think XHTML is a bad idea (NB: that&#8217;s a pretty short summary <img src='http://philwilson.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> , but that&#8217;s a side-issue.</p>
<p>You write on your blog about why not put the data in the content, but equally, why not put it in the feed? Tantek says &#8220;Does it make sense to ask everyone to write envelopes differently just because you’ve figured out a new way to write letters or new things to put in your letters?&#8221; well in that case, shoot all versions after Netscape&#8217;s 0.90 dead on the spot. This argument doesn&#8217;t hold water for me.</p>
<p>It seems to me that microformats are generating pseudo-standards (remember kids, you can extend these any time you like! That&#8217;s why things that begin with X are so cool!) in order to artificially generate million-dollar markup.</p>
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		<title>By: l.m.orchard</title>
		<link>http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me/comment-page-1#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>l.m.orchard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2005 16:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philwilson.org/blog/2005/05/can-someone-explain-microformats-to-me#comment-434</guid>
		<description>Well, from my understanding, this is all about laziness and worse-is-better.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Going to write a about an upcoming concert in your blog?  You&#039;re probably going to mention the name of the band, so why not mark it up with a [span class=&quot;summary&quot;/] while you&#039;re at it?  And there&#039;s probably going to be a mention of time, so why not throw in an [abbr title=&quot;20050511...&quot; /] along the way?  Linking to the venue website?  Slap a class=&quot;url&quot; on that link.  Oh, and surround the bit that talks about the event with a span or a div with a class=&quot;vevent&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There.  You&#039;ve written what you were going to write about anyway, but now you&#039;ve thrown in a few not-so-painful cues for a machine to understand it.  That&#039;s a microformat-- an agreed upon way to mark up what you were going to write about anyway in HTML.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Ideally, you *should* be publishing in valid XHTML.  But, if you&#039;re not, there are tag soup parsers out there that can get some use out of old-school HTML crud.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;See, writing pristine XML isn&#039;t lazy.  And if it&#039;s not lazy, it doesn&#039;t happen.  And, yeah, I should be using a &quot;calendar event&quot; construction tool or some sort of forms-based UI.  But there isn&#039;t one on my blog, where I&#039;m going to write about this thing.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;So, without a microformat, things remain opaque to machines.  But, with a microformat that doesn&#039;t demand too much of a rise out of me, I just might choose to mark up my content in a way that is at least *easier* for a machine to parse-- rather than being all but impossible.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It&#039;s all about compromises to make things more available to machines in ways that people might actually use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, from my understanding, this is all about laziness and worse-is-better.</p>
<p>Going to write a about an upcoming concert in your blog?  You&#8217;re probably going to mention the name of the band, so why not mark it up with a [span class="summary"/] while you&#8217;re at it?  And there&#8217;s probably going to be a mention of time, so why not throw in an [abbr title="20050511..." /] along the way?  Linking to the venue website?  Slap a class=&#8221;url&#8221; on that link.  Oh, and surround the bit that talks about the event with a span or a div with a class=&#8221;vevent&#8221;.</p>
<p>There.  You&#8217;ve written what you were going to write about anyway, but now you&#8217;ve thrown in a few not-so-painful cues for a machine to understand it.  That&#8217;s a microformat&#8211; an agreed upon way to mark up what you were going to write about anyway in HTML.</p>
<p>Ideally, you *should* be publishing in valid XHTML.  But, if you&#8217;re not, there are tag soup parsers out there that can get some use out of old-school HTML crud.</p>
<p>See, writing pristine XML isn&#8217;t lazy.  And if it&#8217;s not lazy, it doesn&#8217;t happen.  And, yeah, I should be using a &#8220;calendar event&#8221; construction tool or some sort of forms-based UI.  But there isn&#8217;t one on my blog, where I&#8217;m going to write about this thing.</p>
<p>So, without a microformat, things remain opaque to machines.  But, with a microformat that doesn&#8217;t demand too much of a rise out of me, I just might choose to mark up my content in a way that is at least *easier* for a machine to parse&#8211; rather than being all but impossible.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all about compromises to make things more available to machines in ways that people might actually use.</p>
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